Round 8 · 1961

Watkins Glen

New York State, USA · October 08, 1961 · Circuit History · Wikipedia

The race, in perspective

Race debrief

What did we expect after qualifying—and who beat it?

R081961
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20 stored results 20/20 Elo snapshots 19/20 numbered grid slots 0/20 qualifying results
Elo × qualifying → race result

Did they beat the expectation?

A strong driver recovering from a poor qualifying position isn't automatically a surprise. This model estimates a finish from both inputs, then compares it with what happened.

Experimental · v1

Expected finish assumes a classified finish. DNFs stay in the full grid but receive no performance verdict. Qualifying is not the starting grid; grid differences are flagged, not silently substituted.

This race has insufficient earlier history: 0/20 races and 0/200 classified finishes with Elo and qualifying. Estimates are withheld.

0/20 entrants have an estimate. Missing Elo or qualifying stays visible below; a grid position is not used as a qualifying result.

Top 3

Beat the estimate

No comparable estimates available for this race yet.

Flop 3

Below the estimate

No comparable estimates available for this race yet.

0/20 entrants assessed. Up to three per side, ranked by expected minus actual finish. DNFs, missing estimates and gaps rounding to 0.0 are excluded. “Flop” means below the model's estimate—not poor driving. A ranked gap can still be inside the usual error range.

Full grid: pre-race Elo rank, qualifying position, estimated finish, actual result and difference from expectation. Positive differences mean finishing ahead of the estimate.
DriverPre-race EloQualifyingExpectedResultP1 ← position → P20vs expectedReading
I. IrelandLotus-Climax #132027 No error range P1 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
D. GurneyPorsche #12441 No error range P2 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
T. BrooksBRM #52244 No error range P3 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
B. McLarenCooper-Climax #22412 No error range P4 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
G. HillBRM #122028 No error range P5 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. BonnierPorsche #62160 No error range P6 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. ClarkLotus-Climax #72106 No error range P7 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
R. PenskeCooper-Climax #16.52000 No error range P8 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
P. RyanLotus-Climax #16.52000 No error range P9 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
H. SharpCooper-Climax #16.52000 No error range P10 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
O. GendebienLotus-Climax #201830 No error range P11 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
R. SalvadoriCooper-Climax #32339 No error range DNFEngine Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. HallLotus-Climax #82099 No error range DNFFuel leak Not assessedQualifying unavailable
L. RubyLotus-Climax #16.52000 No error range DNFMagneto Not assessedQualifying unavailable
S. MossLotus-Climax #42283 No error range DNFEngine Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. BrabhamCooper-Climax #102040 No error range DNFOverheating Not assessedQualifying unavailable
M. GregoryLotus-Climax #112038 No error range DNFGearbox Not assessedQualifying unavailable
W. HansgenCooper-Climax #16.52000 No error range DNFAccident Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. SurteesCooper-Climax #92056 No error range DNFEngine Not assessedQualifying unavailable
K. MilesLotus-Climax #16.52000 Grid unnumbered No error range DNSWithdrew Not assessedQualifying unavailable
How useful is the model? See the historical check

There is not enough earlier history for a rolling hold-out check yet.

The range scales the 80th percentile of earlier held-out absolute errors to this field size, rounding outward. It is an empirical error guide, not a guaranteed 80% chance for a particular driver. We require at least five checked races and 100 checked finishes before showing it.

Inputs are field-normalised Elo rank and qualifying position. The target is position among all race entries, trained only on classified finishers. Estimates are averages, not a unique predicted finishing order. Penalties, the circuit, weather, incidents and strategy aren't model inputs. Historical qualifying coverage is patchy; this is an exploratory backtest on corrected records, not proof of live forecasting accuracy.

The rating ledger

What changed in Elo?

These are actual rating changes. The expectation model above does not change Elo or fantasy scoring.

Largest Elo gain

Ireland+185.9 Elo

Largest Elo loss

Moss−143.6 Elo

Largest grid-to-finish gain

Penske+8 places

The bigger picture

Championship after this round

Top five in the stored standings. Points include sprint results where applicable.

  1. 1 Hill 34pts 0
  2. 2 von Trips 33pts 0
  3. 3 Moss 21pts 0
  4. 4 Gurney 21pts +1
  5. 5 Ginther 16pts −1

Movement since round 7. A dash means the earlier standing is unavailable.

Explore the season →
Across the garage

Teammate results

Two-driver constructor entries from this race. A result comparison, not an adjustment for strategy or reliability.

BRM

BrooksP3+67.9 Elo
HillP5+119.2 Elo

2 places apart at the finish.

What this analysis can—and cannot—tell you

This debrief is calculated from stored results and rating snapshots. The experimental expectation model learns from earlier races only, using Elo rank and qualifying together; it never feeds back into Elo. It is not a separately reviewed race report.

Elo uses the result order, including retirements. It does not isolate driver skill from the car, reliability, penalties or strategy. Elo seed comparisons use pre-race ratings, never today's ratings. Equal ratings share the midpoint of their rank range (for example, tied first and second become seed 1.5).

Grid gains use numbered starting slots and classified finishes only. Zero or missing grid values are excluded; a position gained is not necessarily an overtake. Qualifying gaps use the latest segment both teammates have a valid time for, never Q1 against Q3.

Lap-by-lap pace, tyre stints, pit-stop execution and safety-car effects are not available in this report. Missing data is omitted, not inferred.

Read the Elo methodology →
20
Result Entries
Avg Elo
Highest Elo (Gurney)
9
Non-finishes

Race

Qualifying

# Driver Grid +/- Points Season Pts Season # Elo Change Elo
P1 🇬🇧 I.Ireland 8 +7 +9 12 P6 +185.9 2,213
P2 🇺🇸 D.Gurney 7 +5 +6 21 P4 +27.6 2,469
P3 🇬🇧 T.Brooks 5 +2 +4 6 P10 +67.9 2,311
P4 🇳🇿 B.McLaren 4 +3 11 P8 +1.3 2,413
P5 🇬🇧 G.Hill 2 -3 +2 3 P16 +119.2 2,147
P6 🇸🇪 J.Bonnier 10 +4 +1 3 P15 +49.7 2,209
P7 🇬🇧 J.Clark 6 -1 0 11 P7 +54.7 2,160
P8 🇺🇸 R.Penske 16 +8 0 0 P22 +80.9 2,081
P9 🇨🇦 P.Ryan 13 +4 0 0 P24 +64.4 2,064
P10 🇺🇸 H.Sharp 17 +7 0 0 P28 +47.9 2,048
P11 🇧🇪 O.Gendebien 15 +4 0 3 P14 +90.0 1,920
DNF 🇬🇧 R.Salvadori 12 0 2 P17 -111.4 2,227
DNF 🇺🇸 J.Hall 18 0 0 P38 -41.8 2,057
DNF 🇺🇸 L.Ruby 19 0 0 P39 -18.2 1,982
DNF 🇬🇧 S.Moss 3 0 21 P3 -143.6 2,139
DNF 🇦🇺 J.Brabham 1 0 4 P11 -67.3 1,973
DNF 🇺🇸 M.Gregory 11 0 0 P25 -82.8 1,955
DNF 🇺🇸 W.Hansgen 14 0 0 P43 -84.2 1,916
DNF 🇬🇧 J.Surtees 9 0 4 P12 -123.1 1,933
DNS 🇬🇧 K.Miles 0 0 0 P47 -117.3 1,883

Qualifying results are not available for this race.

Elo Changes