Round 8 · 1963

Watkins Glen

New York State, USA · October 06, 1963 · Circuit History · Wikipedia

The race, in perspective

Race debrief

What did we expect after qualifying—and who beat it?

R081963
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24 stored results 24/24 Elo snapshots 21/24 numbered grid slots 0/24 qualifying results
Elo × qualifying → race result

Did they beat the expectation?

A strong driver recovering from a poor qualifying position isn't automatically a surprise. This model estimates a finish from both inputs, then compares it with what happened.

Experimental · v1

Expected finish assumes a classified finish. DNFs stay in the full grid but receive no performance verdict. Qualifying is not the starting grid; grid differences are flagged, not silently substituted.

This race has insufficient earlier history: 0/20 races and 0/200 classified finishes with Elo and qualifying. Estimates are withheld.

0/24 entrants have an estimate. Missing Elo or qualifying stays visible below; a grid position is not used as a qualifying result.

Top 3

Beat the estimate

No comparable estimates available for this race yet.

Flop 3

Below the estimate

No comparable estimates available for this race yet.

0/24 entrants assessed. Up to three per side, ranked by expected minus actual finish. DNFs, missing estimates and gaps rounding to 0.0 are excluded. “Flop” means below the model's estimate—not poor driving. A ranked gap can still be inside the usual error range.

Full grid: pre-race Elo rank, qualifying position, estimated finish, actual result and difference from expectation. Positive differences mean finishing ahead of the estimate.
DriverPre-race EloQualifyingExpectedResultP1 ← position → P24vs expectedReading
G. HillBRM #82274 No error range P1 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
R. GintherBRM #22454 No error range P2 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. ClarkLotus-Climax #12604 No error range P3 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. BrabhamBrabham #52322 No error range P4 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
L. BandiniFerrari #152097 No error range P5 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
C. de BeaufortPorsche #142101 No error range P6 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
P. BroekerStebro #212000 No error range P7 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. BonnierCooper-Climax #62308 No error range P8 Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. SurteesFerrari #72284 No error range DNFEngine Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. HallLotus-BRM #42337 No error range DNFGearbox Not assessedQualifying unavailable
B. McLarenCooper-Climax #92263 No error range DNFFuel pump Not assessedQualifying unavailable
J. SiffertLotus-BRM #122194 No error range DNFGearbox Not assessedQualifying unavailable
T. MaggsCooper-Climax #32348 No error range DNFIgnition Not assessedQualifying unavailable
R. WardLotus-BRM #192034 No error range DNFGearbox Not assessedQualifying unavailable
D. GurneyBrabham #102249 No error range DNFChassis Not assessedQualifying unavailable
P. RodríguezLotus-Climax #212000 No error range DNFEngine Not assessedQualifying unavailable
T. TaylorLotus-Climax #132158 No error range DNFElectrical Not assessedQualifying unavailable
M. GregoryLola #182040 No error range DNFEngine Not assessedQualifying unavailable
H. SharpLotus-BRM #162089 No error range DNFRetired Not assessedQualifying unavailable
P. HillATS #172044 No error range DNFOil pump Not assessedQualifying unavailable
G. BaghettiATS #231965 No error range DNFOil pump Not assessedQualifying unavailable
W. HansgenLotus-Climax #241916 Grid unnumbered No error range DNSWithdrew Not assessedQualifying unavailable
I. IrelandLotus-BRM #112230 Grid unnumbered No error range DNSWithdrew Not assessedQualifying unavailable
E. de VosStebro #212000 Grid unnumbered No error range DNSWithdrew Not assessedQualifying unavailable
How useful is the model? See the historical check

There is not enough earlier history for a rolling hold-out check yet.

The range scales the 80th percentile of earlier held-out absolute errors to this field size, rounding outward. It is an empirical error guide, not a guaranteed 80% chance for a particular driver. We require at least five checked races and 100 checked finishes before showing it.

Inputs are field-normalised Elo rank and qualifying position. The target is position among all race entries, trained only on classified finishers. Estimates are averages, not a unique predicted finishing order. Penalties, the circuit, weather, incidents and strategy aren't model inputs. Historical qualifying coverage is patchy; this is an exploratory backtest on corrected records, not proof of live forecasting accuracy.

The rating ledger

What changed in Elo?

These are actual rating changes. The expectation model above does not change Elo or fantasy scoring.

Largest Elo gain

Broeker+124.0 Elo

Largest Elo loss

Ireland−144.8 Elo

Largest grid-to-finish gain

Broeker+14 places

The bigger picture

Championship after this round

Top five in the stored standings. Points include sprint results where applicable.

  1. 1 Clark 51pts 0
  2. 2 Ginther 28pts 0
  3. 3 Hill 22pts +2
  4. 4 Surtees 22pts −1
  5. 5 McLaren 14pts −1

Movement since round 7. A dash means the earlier standing is unavailable.

Explore the season →
Across the garage

Teammate results

Two-driver constructor entries from this race. A result comparison, not an adjustment for strategy or reliability.

BRM

HillP1+104.9 Elo
GintherP2+41.9 Elo

1 place apart at the finish.

Stebro

BroekerP7+124.0 Elo
de VosDNS−80.1 Elo

Non-finish recorded; no finishing gap comparison.

ATS

HillDNF−45.8 Elo
BaghettiDNF−33.9 Elo

Non-finish recorded; no finishing gap comparison.

What this analysis can—and cannot—tell you

This debrief is calculated from stored results and rating snapshots. The experimental expectation model learns from earlier races only, using Elo rank and qualifying together; it never feeds back into Elo. It is not a separately reviewed race report.

Elo uses the result order, including retirements. It does not isolate driver skill from the car, reliability, penalties or strategy. Elo seed comparisons use pre-race ratings, never today's ratings. Equal ratings share the midpoint of their rank range (for example, tied first and second become seed 1.5).

Grid gains use numbered starting slots and classified finishes only. Zero or missing grid values are excluded; a position gained is not necessarily an overtake. Qualifying gaps use the latest segment both teammates have a valid time for, never Q1 against Q3.

Lap-by-lap pace, tyre stints, pit-stop execution and safety-car effects are not available in this report. Missing data is omitted, not inferred.

Read the Elo methodology →
24
Result Entries
Avg Elo
Highest Elo (Clark)
16
Non-finishes

Race

Qualifying

# Driver Grid +/- Points Season Pts Season # Elo Change Elo
P1 🇬🇧 G.Hill 1 +9 22 P3 +104.9 2,378
P2 🇺🇸 R.Ginther 4 +2 +6 28 P2 +41.9 2,496
P3 🇬🇧 J.Clark 2 -1 +4 51 P1 +1.7 2,606
P4 🇦🇺 J.Brabham 5 +1 +3 8 P8 +53.5 2,376
P5 🇮🇹 L.Bandini 9 +4 +2 4 P10 +117.0 2,214
P6 🇳🇱 C.de Beaufort 19 +13 +1 2 P14 +103.4 2,205
P7 🇨🇦 P.Broeker 21 +14 0 0 P19 +124.0 2,124
P8 🇸🇪 J.Bonnier 12 +4 0 3 P12 +9.9 2,318
DNF 🇬🇧 J.Surtees 3 0 22 P4 +5.3 2,290
DNF 🇺🇸 J.Hall 16 0 3 P13 -23.0 2,314
DNF 🇳🇿 B.McLaren 11 0 14 P5 -11.8 2,251
DNF 🇨🇭 J.Siffert 14 0 1 P15 -0.5 2,194
DNF 🇿🇦 T.Maggs 10 0 9 P7 -62.3 2,286
DNF 🇺🇸 R.Ward 17 0 0 P33 +29.5 2,063
DNF 🇺🇸 D.Gurney 6 0 12 P6 -55.1 2,194
DNF 🇲🇽 P.Rodríguez 13 0 0 P35 +15.9 2,016
DNF 🇬🇧 T.Taylor 7 0 1 P16 -48.3 2,110
DNF 🇺🇸 M.Gregory 8 0 0 P25 -20.4 2,019
DNF 🇺🇸 H.Sharp 18 0 0 P37 -48.4 2,040
DNF 🇺🇸 P.Hill 15 0 0 P24 -45.8 1,998
DNF 🇮🇹 G.Baghetti 20 0 0 P29 -33.9 1,931
DNS 🇺🇸 W.Hansgen 0 0 0 P39 -32.7 1,883
DNS 🇬🇧 I.Ireland 0 0 6 P9 -144.8 2,085
DNS 🇳🇱 E.de Vos 0 0 0 P42 -80.1 1,920

Qualifying results are not available for this race.

Elo Changes